Freedom Begins Here Blog

Jaemson & Rick,

I am a full-time regional facilitator with Faithful & True of Jacksonville. I have been in recovery from SA for 14 years, 11 months and one week! I have heard a lot of stories about disclosure and the reaction of innocent parties. I wanted to talk about the issue regarding the young man you read about who was "fired" from his ministry position...

I agree that it sounded like harsh treatment and I applaud the couple for taking the high road of humility and acceptance when they were honest. After being 'kicked to the curb as you say' they seem to have a good attitude...But, it was only one year into his recovery and there were no guarantees that he would get to keep his job in spite of his District Supt assurances that all would be fine. In this day and time, nothing is for sure on this earth.

First, we do not get to pick our consequences. Remember, it wasn't the honesty that got him fired, but his lies, deceit & lust that caused the termination.

Second, it seems easy to crictisize a church for their reaction, but we may not have all of the facts. Possibly he had some other issues unrelated to his porn use, or there had been other staff members that had been dealt with. Also, those of us who are called of God to serve in a ministry or church have a higher calling than those who look to us for Spiritual guidance.

Finally, we have no idea what wounds the parishoners are going through. There most likely were many in the congregation who could not OR want to deal with this man's admission...it was just too painful for the average member. Your scripture quote is correct but there is nothing that says we must confess all of our sins to an entire congregation when they can't deal with the truth. A pastor should protect his flock while being honest. A tough thing to do, but that is in my opinion the best thing to do.

As a church member and lay-leader, I gave up all of my duties at my church upon the discovery of my sin. No one knew why except the Pastor, a trusted deacon and my wife. My dear wife and I pursued a rigourous recovery program through a local counselor and Dr. Mark Laaser. None of them suggested I tell my entire church. It was 7 years after having Faithful & True meetings in my church was I ready to tell my story. And so 9 years after my fall, I told our congregation and they loved me accepted me and supported me (and my wife).

If I had told my story too soon,they would not have been able to handle it and we might have been shunned or asked to leave. But, we waited on God to possibly purge some angry people out and bring in more loving people. I could then build on renewed relationships with a sober mind. We are now full-time missionaries with our supporting church loving us all the way with significant financial support.

My observation is the young man went to his congregation much too soon with virtually no 'political support' from his Elders to stand by him. It would have been better to stay silent and possibly resign, but God will work things out for him and his faithful wife.

God bless,
Jerry Sinclair, Marriage Missionary

Regarding Jerry's Excellent Comments:

Thank you for your feedback. It was good to hear from someone who has the knowledge and background you have with Faithful and True ministries. You raise several good points worthy of discussion, in my opinion. We appreciate that very much!

First, you are correct, we do not know the whole story. We may not have all the facts. We only have what was written to go on. Any speculation on my part or on the part of others would be only that, speculation. There may have been other issues or there may not have been.

Second, maybe the admission was given too soon. That is a great point. I don't know. Who determines when it has been long enough? I do not ask that to be argumentative, because I appreciate your feedback. It was very well written, and I learned from it. But, for the purpose of discussion, if others want to join in, when is long enough? Is it case by case? Are there guidelines? Should there be guidelines? Is this unexplored territory? Should it have been explored by now?

Third, was he fired for his lies, deceit, and lust or was he fired for confessing them? I realize if he had never watched porn he would have had no need to confess and therefore would not have been in this situation that brought on the consequences, but do you think he would have been fired had he kept it a secret and not confessed it? Again, I am not being argumentative (your comments are excellent!). I am just trying to ask questions to stimulate conversation so we can all learn. Not as enemies but as friends.

Fourth, if he had confessed he had been in treatment for gluttony or greed (sins also mentioned in the Bible) would the consequences have been the same? Why or why not, in the opinion of others reading this post? Should they be?

Fifth, I agree that ministers have a high calling. But, my question is (for the point of constructive discussion and education) what if a minister is tempted and struggles in the area of pornography? Is this the sin we choose to fire him or her over? Should this be the one? Are there others? What are they? Where does the minister go for help? Will he or she be afraid to? Should they be afraid? Should there be an opportunity for restoration? What is that process? I am not just speaking of this particular instance but of the subject in general. What are the thoughts of others? Let us know.

Sixth, the question of timing (again) is an excellent point. Were the parishoners ready? That is an excellent question. Evidently, they were not. That is pretty obvious. But my question is (again, just for the point of discussion and learning) should they have been? The reason I ask is that statistically speaking, 50 % of Christian men, 20 % of Christian women, 7 of 10 lay leaders, and 4 of 10 pastors admit to a real struggle with pornography and lust. Now, I do not know the demographics of that particular congregation so I will not comment on them, but chances are that in most congregations a large segment of the parishoners are struggling (silently - fear of confessing?) themselves. So should we act so "shocked" at what we know we struggle with in our own lives? Is some of that just "fake" to cover ourselves and our own struggles? Again, just questions for open and civil discussion.

Seventh, I do not advocate that confessing our sins to one another means that we "air our dirty laundry in public" or that we need to be graphic in detail. I believe in care, wisdom, and discretion. It is just that so many people in churches have been ostracized for admitting weaknesses. Especially in this area. Is that the right way to deal with this? I'm just asking. Are we not all weak in some area? I am just saying that God's people ought to be the ones we can go to for help, healing, and restoration. If we can not offer that to our own, what do we have to offer to anyone else?

Finally, I want to say thank you again to Jerry for his comments. We do not know all of the particulars of the story I read on the blog. I really appreciated him saying that along with all of his other excellent points. This reply is in gratitude for opening up the opportunity to discuss these issues in general. I hope and pray we get many comments and that we can all learn and grow in the Lord together. I will never pretend to know all the answers. But I will ask questions to hopefully stimulate good, loving, and compassionate, Biblical conversation among good, loving, and compassionate brothers and sisters in Christ. We also welcome your comments and thoughts if you are not a follower of Christ. We wish to be friends with you, as well.

Thank you,
Rick
Freedom Begins Here

Rick, your first question...Who determines when it has been long enough? That should be a "team" decision. If the addict is working a true 12 step program or suport group, he should have a sponsor, a therapist, a Spiritual advisor, a church elder and his wife all involved in the decision process. In that tight knit group, anyone should be able to veto such a move. The addict and his wive need to review the possible consequences regarding their children, elderly parents & family within the church, etc. I observed Dr. Laaser turn down a few TV interviews when his children were in school. He did not want them burdened with their classmates snide remarks.

NEXT QUESTION; was he fired for his lies, deceit, and lust or was he fired for confessing them? We encourage men to give full disclosure to their wife as soon as they can both be in a safe place...then over time make amends to others he has offended when it will do no harm. Many of these men are fearful of attack from loved ones especially if the wife is told of new information that is even more harmful. I constantly and lovingly remind the men that lack of honesty (lies, deceit, hidden adgendas) is what got them in trouble. Being honest is the first step towards purity. It is tough to pure with secrets still stored away hoping that no one finds out. keeping secrets is no intimcay. The goal in every Godly marriage is honesty so that we can feel safe with the one we love.

NEXT QUESTION: if he had confessed he had been in treatment for gluttony or greed (sins also mentioned in the Bible) would the consequences have been the same? The Apostle Paul listed many sins in Romans 8. But, sexual sin is the only sin against the 'body'. I am not Greek scholar, but I belive that word 'body' is not just limited to a sinner's own body, but also the body he is connected or grafted into.

NEXT QUESTION: what if a minister is tempted and struggles in the area of pornography? Is this the sin we choose to fire him or her over? Should this be the one? Are there others? As I said in my first post, when an unsuspecting congregation has a sexual bombshell dropped on them, it triggers emotional reactions, not a loving response. If the church is full of sexual sinners who are not in recovery, they would want to make the confessing addict look bad so there would be no light left to shine on themselves. The Pharasees were not dumb sheep when Jesus confronted them. They knew exactly what they were doing in their sin-infested minds and wanted Jesus out of the way before they lost their ability to 'Lord' over the people. There were most likely many others who were victims of sexual sin and did not want to relive this pain again. I suspect the young Pastor was ignorant of these possiblities and thought he had "love" on his side. Unfortunately, that was not the case and a team of wise men might have adivsed him to take an unpaid leave of abscence or some other tactic rather than have the congregation in an uproar. Pastors, though human, have violated trust if the 1)steel church money or 2) commit sexual sin. Many churches have that written into their by-laws. "If a staff member steels or commits moral imterpitude, that is grounds for dismisal." Your readers might want to exaimine their church by-laws for verification.

NEXT QUESTION: Where does the minister go for help? Will he or she be afraid to? Should they be afraid? Should there be an opportunity for restoration? What is that process? I am currently a missionary - called of God and I serve at His pleasure. I have been in ministry before and left for secular - lay ministry. There are some that make ministry a life calling. But, when our "habitual" sin gets in the way of our ministry, then we should step down for the good of the people we serve. Gluntony was mentioned as a sin that needs exmination. I know several excellent Pastors who could lose 100 pounds and they will still have the same effective ministry. Other Pastors are physical specimens to the point that their exercise routine has prevented them from duties that important to the church at that time. Neither man deserves to be 'fired' but all should fall under the umbrella of protection and accountability (in every area of their life) by their elders and deacons. The Pastor who has a besetting sin needs to accpet that he is helpless to fight this alone and he must seek confidential therapy and then after some time in recovery, prayer and reflection, be honest with his wife, District Supt, and then a trusted elder or deacon. If he continues to slip, stumble or relapse then more drastic action must be taken. If the Pastor is having an affair or involved in criminal behavior then he should be reported and he should resign. The more grevious the consequences, the more the Pastor needs to do to make his congregation safe.

NEXT QUESTION; so many people in churches have been ostracized f

Jerry,

Thank you so much for adding to the conversation. Lots of good information and food for thought! Unfortunately, our system cut off your comments before they were finished. They ended at so many people in churches have been ostracized...

Would you please re-submit the rest of your comments? We really do want to hear what you have to say! I apologize that happened

Thank you,
Rick
Freedom Begins Here

Rick,

Sorry I have not checked-in. I had hoped others would join in the discussion.

I am finding out on a daily basis that your ministry and mine are in a preverbial mine field. Every man who comes to us is one man in which Satan has lost his grip. Satan is not happy about our cause and he attacks us in several ways. Fortunately, my boundaries and accountability are so strong, Satan has abandonded the sex temptation for the time being and instead attacked my body (severe back pain) and our finances (we had a rough summer). Wel, I will get relief from this back pain next week (epidural by an MD) and we have gotten a financial victory as well, with God's help.

Please pray for us as we will pray for you
Pray for the sinful husbands and hurting wives
Pray for the single man and the church in which he resides.
Amen

God bless,
Jerry...Psalm 51...the last part!

I'm 18 years old and I was recently saved by Christ. Ever still these occassional thoughts of lust would come in my head and into my dreams. I've prayed to God that I be free from this. I try to block out such thoughts and don't think upon them exstinsevely they just pop up and I'm trying to make them go away but they just won't. When I preoccupy myself or think upon other things I am free from those thoughts but then when I'm all alone in my room or something they come back. I want to be free from this. I was sexually abused at a very young age by my step-brother and occasionally by my step-father. I prayed to God to help me. I cried out in severe desperation when I was watching TBN and a program talking about porn addiction popped up. God had indeed answered my plight and was trying to tell me what I was doing wrong. I knew the Bible said to confess your sins but I thought it only meant to God. He showed me I was wrong in my reasoning where He meant was not only to Him but to other people as well. So please pray for me so I might be free of this please. Also pray about the fact I impulsively cuss in my head as well cuase I need to break that habit too.

I do think this is a most incredible website for proclaiming great wonders of Our God!